Anyone with experience from low-rate listing services?

Sally Howe

Hey--just wondering if anyone has any experience with systems like Best Radio Commercials? The deal is that they list you with the idea that you may have a chance of getting more frequent work but for reduced rates. Their rates:

Commercials (voice only)
Local (1-2 Markets)
:30 Local = $50.00
:60 Local = $65.00
Regional (3+ Markets)
:30 Regional = $75
:60 Regional = $100

I guess the major disadvantage for me is that there's a sort-of "on-call" feeling about it, where you have to keep them apprised of any/all absences/illnesses at all times.

Any thoughts?

Chris Mezzolesta · Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008, 12:39 (GMT) Post subject:

I could be prejudiced because I come from having been a union member into the world of "free market" non-union work, but for those rates I couldn't make my availability a priority, they'd get done when I had time...for any retainer work or work that has commensurate rates, I am on the spot or as close as possible, but have even turned down offers from these "spot mill" companies to be listed with them as the rates offered are just not up to speed with the exposure that my voice would be getting (exposure as in "there's that guy again", not as in "just think of how many people will hear you on the radio/TV"). In all I feel they're not worth it and they cheapen and drive down the market for the rest of us who have placed a fair value on our services. Check the rates at www.aftra.com for ideas on what you *should* be getting for those commercials, at least as a guideline for what to charge on your own. Just because a spot is non-union doesn't mean it should be cheap. Cheap is cheap, and the old "you get what you pay for" applies. Of course, YMMV!

Scott Pollak · Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008, 13:51 (GMT) Post subject:

Y'know, there are plenty of places like this out there and plenty of people willing to work for that kind of pay. But how much are YOU worth? I can't answer that. I don't know if you have the experience, the talent, the equipment, etc. But YOU need to know it's up to YOU to establish your worth.

No question that the age of internet casting and non-union has changed the playing field. Most people are not going to be able to command the rates that were typical 5 or 10 years ago. Still, that doesn't mean you have to sell out. Establish your value and worth to your clients so that they'll know they're getting value for their dollar, and they won't complain. About a year ago I finally raised my rates by about 33% for my regular clients and simply explained the rising cost of living plus the fact that they were still getting a bargain (they are!). Not one complained or disappeared. As a matter of fact, I heard from more than one that they felt I was well worth it.

So be very careful and thoughtful about 'giving away' your hard-earned talents.

Kara Edwards · Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008, 15:05 (GMT) Post subject:

My agents will attest to the fact that I always say setting rates is my least favorite part of the job! That's why I never mind agent fees Smile

When I first went full time, I received an e-mail from a client who wanted me to say 8 words for a small-ish market radio spot for $50. I said I had a $100 minimum and they reminded me it would only take a few minutes. So, against my better judgement, I did the job for $75. Then, they wanted me for 8 words on another spot, and another. I had already agreed to the rate and was stuck. In the end, I did 5 commercials for $75 each. Some may think that sounds great- I didn't. I knew what my talent, my studio, and my time were worth and that wasn't it. Not only that, but I had to fight for months to get paid...so it REALLY wasn't worth it!

After this experience, I sat down and created my own rate sheet. Like I said, I consider all types of work- but I have enough experience and the absolute ability to say no.

The question is...what is your time and talent worth?

Still don't know the answer? Then please take a few minutes and read this excelent blog by my friend Mary McKitrick:

http://mcmvoices.com/blog/2008/01/setting-rates-in-voice-over-business.html

Scott Pollak · Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008, 15:24 (GMT) Post subject:

Excellent blog, Kara. I suggest everyone go read it.

Kara Edwards · Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008, 15:41 (GMT) Post subject:

If you click back to Mary's main blog- there is a wonderful recent post about "Perceived value in voice over" that is also a must-read. Mary is one smart cookie! (and talented too!)

One more thought I had (and please keep in mind that I don't discuss my rates or jobs on message boards- so the above post and what is here are hypotheticals):

I recently had to negotiate a contract with a company. We really hit a cross-roads with the rates I proposed for extra usage of the original audio. When I explained that it was less about money, and more about exposure...they totally agreed with me.

I'll explain: Let's say I sign a contract with company A to do a VO. I don't add anything into the contract about usage, and I give company A full legal right to do what they will with my audio. Company A takes the audio, puts it online, on TV, animates it, makes a talking doll with it, etc. Suddenly, my voice is being heard everywhere and I haven't made much money. Comapny B (a major corporation) creates a job I would be perfect for...but they are hesitant because my voice is already heard everywhere with company A (for little money), so they go with another actor. Now I am stuck.

I'm always careful to protect myself in all scenarios. If someone is using my voice- I want to get paid appropriately. If I am doing lots of radio commercials for small money, and miss out on a big job because I am over-exposed...then I really did myself no favors.

Always think big picture. Where do you want to be heard ultimately? Then focus your energies there. As a non-union actor living in a right-to-work state it is up to ME to protect myself.

Adam James · Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008, 22:12 (GMT) Post subject:

Kara

That is a very good point, Do folks here have a paragraph in their work agreement with a client as to audio use? I have only ever put in what I am obliged to voice up, never anything to say they cannot use my recording on other projects without my prior permission. I'm thinking it may be a good idea and act as a safety net to avoid being 'over-exposed'.

Adam

Kara Edwards · Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008, 22:26 (GMT) Post subject:

You always want to protect yourself. When I am contacted directly, I always repeat back to them what they've proposed...

"You need a :30 VO for a 13 week run in Louisiana, correct? The fee for this voice over will be $xxx.xx. If you choose to use the audio in any additional manner, I've included my rate sheet for your convenience."

Polite, but professional. You want to make your client happy, and you also want to make a good living! Both are completely possible with a little planning and protection.

Adam James · Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008, 22:37 (GMT) Post subject:

That's great Kara,

Many thanks, I will keep it in mind next time. I never tend to pass on my rate card to clients, but maybe it is something I should consider doing.

Adam Very Happy