AMERICAN IDOL

Craig Crumpton · **Voice Talent** Joined: 10 Mar 2008 Posts: 58

Having toured professionally and worked in the music biz as a road mgr and promoter and singer, I really can't stand American Idol. But I'm also a music junkie and I can't help myself because something in me likes to see "the next big thing", and my gut instinct knows a star when I see one. And I've picked the real winners every season: the ones who actually have the whole package to offer (talent, looks, personality), and staying power.

However, it's become a popularity contest over a talent showcase. And there have been far too many industry plants on the show... especially this season.

I have a hard time seeing it now as anything more than an overblown, overhyped karaoke show.

And it's become more and more mediocre since it started too. While Simon's no-nonsense, straightforward, and witty opinions make the show decent TV entertainment, it's gotten to where I'll only watch the first and last couple of episodes each season.

The ratings have been lagging for the show the last two seasons too. I give it a couple more seasons before audiences are tired of it.

Dave DeAndrea · Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008, 06:01 (GMT) Post subject:

Looks like my Oregon girl dodged a bullet tonight... but I'm not sad to see David go... nice voice but not the best guy this season.

Melba Sibrel · Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008, 17:23 (GMT) Post subject:

Yo, Dave! Yep...I'm surprised that cringe-inducing arrangement didn't get her booted off; but she is a good vocalist. Of those bottom three, I think the guy that got booted was actually the strongest vocalist. His past work may have turned off some of the "ooo he's cute" votes of girls and young ladies -- don't know; maybe that's not the voting contingency -- I shouldn't assume that. Ms. Mercado appears to be the weakest vocalist of those three, yet she remains. But I still can't believe the Hacksaw (thanks, Lucas) is there. Yikes.

David Oxford · **Voice Talent** Joined: 09 Feb 2007 Posts: 505

Craig:

As someone who's spent his entire life playing music, in one form or the other, including fronting a band for nearly 20 years, touring the club circuits across the South (the entire breadth of the country), and spending a very healthy amount of time in the studio - both as a performer/singer/songwriter/musician and a producer and/or engineer for other acts - I respectfully disagree with you about Idol. I think, like anything else, when something - anything - begins to take hold and "get big" and hit a broad swath of success, as Idol obviously has for a number of years, it becomes the object of ridicule.

This goes for artists, too. I'm sure we've all heard stories about the small, hometown artist/band that "kept it real" while they were small potatoes and could play in places that were intimate enough that the public could be close & personal with them....but as soon as they start hitting it "bigger" and (God forbid) they should hit it big enough to land a label deal, then you hear the moans & screams about how they "sold out" and how the record label "turned them into something they're not" or how they've become "homogenized pablum that sounds like everybody else," etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. I don't deny that, in some cases, that's probably true - as would be a hundred other scenarios. But, just like there was a long period of time when it was popular to diss artists like, for example, Barry Manilow, (who is incredibly talented) he has mostly outlived his critics and, in addition to his fan base that came about as a result of his glory years, has now found an entirely new generation of fans. Same for Tony Bennett, James Taylor, Elton John...and there are others. But I digress......

I happen to agree with the hype the Idol juggernaut is promoting this season: that this season's talent is the best ever. There's no question that, overall, the Top 12 is the strongest Top 12 in the show's history. Do I think they're all good enough to be the winner? Well, of course not.....but I'm glad there's a generous representation of talent that could, on any given night, be "the best" artist on a particular night.

As far as my Top 5 picks at this moment?

1) Carly Smithson - strongest voice of the bunch!
2) David Cook - probably the most commercial of the bunch!
3) David Archuleta - could be the real dark horse of the bunch, if he can adapt to music older than he is!
4) Brooke White - I like her; very good but probably not commercial enough.
5) Jason Castro - I like him; from my home state, very unique but again, probably not commercial enough.

My prediction for the finals are #1 & #2 above....but Craig, one thing I DO agree with you about is: anything can happen because it's in the hands of a voting public (or so we are told) and so you just never know. I disagree with one of the other posts, that Amanda Overmyer is this year's Sanjaya. She is light years better than that and I actually like her, although as Dave Deandrea (hope I spelled that right, Dave!) points out, I can only handle her in smaller doses. She is probably limited to what we've heard her do, which doesn't bode well for an AI talent.

I do find it interesting that Idol runs the talent "through the mill", regarding various genres of music, because once they get into the real world and, if fortunate enough to land a label deal, will only make music that fits a specific genre and/or the talent's abilities....but I suppose there's a method to the madness. Overall, I think Idol still brings the kind of exposure to artists they could never hope to attain in a lifetime on their own....and even if they were to go the traditional route of the whole "label deal" thing, no record label could spend the kind of money promoting one artist - let alone 12 - to equal that exposure. So, I still think it's a good thing. One could certainly make an argument that Idol contestants have done quite well in "the real world."

David Oxford · **Voice Talent** Joined: 09 Feb 2007 Posts: 505

Allison Scussel · **Voice Talent** Joined: 25 Apr 2007 Posts: 928

I admit it. I'm an AI junky coming out of the closet. Rolling Eyes

Actually, I was forced to watch this week. My doctor discovered I have phlebitis & I was ordered to stricted bed rest this week. It's not connected to a deep vein & no surgery is required. Pheeew! niedermayr anbeten

Today is my first day on the computer in almost a week.

Amanda Overmyer, the girl with the freaky hair who sounds like Janis Joplin, is actually one of my top picks. Will she win? I doubt it, but someone in the music industry will pick her up. She has the kind of voice you have to be "in the mood" for, but it's unique and I like it. Go ahead and "Booh" me. Just give me a second to duck from the flying objects. Laughing

Chickeazy totally blew me away on Tuesday night. I may have spelled his name wrong, but we probably all did. If he could keep up with those stellar performances, he's got a great chance of making the top 5.

Carly Smithson is an inspiration and very talented. She's got the potential of becoming the next Ann Wilson. Her version of "Come Together" was very close to Aerosmith's version. Probably better, IMO.

David Cook rocked it! Now some local band from the Pacific NorthWest is coming foward saying he stole their version of the Beatles song he sang. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. Sampling songs is one thing, but sampling versions of a song is a new one for me.

This is a great thread. Glad it was started! I'm looking foward to next week's opinions.

TTYL Allison

David Oxford · **Voice Talent** Joined: 09 Feb 2007 Posts: 505

Allison:

So sorry to hear about your health issues!! I hope you're already on the road to swift recovery!

Allison Scussel · **Voice Talent** Joined: 25 Apr 2007 Posts: 928

ITA David.

I saw the story on E! Entertainment late last night and I felt the same way. Different versions of songs are released all the time. The only time copy writing issues are even mentioned is when the 2nd artist or group didn't get permission to record the original. IE: Vanilla Ice and "Ice Ice Baby" claims it's a different bass line than Queen/Bowie's "Under Pressure." {And I have a bridge for sale}

This band from Washington/Oregon are crying wolf because they're not getting the notority they crave.

PS....thanks for the well wishes!

Craig Crumpton · **Voice Talent** Joined: 10 Mar 2008 Posts: 58

David:

It's fine with me that you disagree. I've had a pretty fierce and negative opinion about Idol since it first aired, primarily because I've met local artists in my travels--people who were singing just for fun and for the love of music and performing--who were (as you put it) "light years" ahead of most performers who've appeared on Idol. And I used to always ask them why they didn't "go pro", and the answer is always the same: freedom. And now that I've worked in the industry, I understand what they mean.

I had a singing coach help prep me for a competition last January, and I asked her if any of her star pupils had ever wanted to audition for shows like AI and "America's Got Talent". She said she'd actually had several students who wanted training so they'd do well on the AI auditions here in Atlanta. She also said that she was personally invited to audition for AGT.

And a few of her students actually made it through auditions for AI, and she was going to do AGT but she asked to see a contract in advance. She said having seen the contracts for both shows--what was actually involved--she declined to do AGT and persuaded her other students not to even audition for shows like AI and AGT. Essentially, if you're successful on shows like AI and AGT, they own you and your music. And even if you aren't one of the finalists (it's no secret that a number of artists have no desire to win...just to get exposure), there are contract stipulations that can cause great difficulty for you to continue your career as an artist after your stint on the show.

She said that if she'd competed on AGT, a recording she'd just wrapped production on would've been jeopardized. She wouldn't have been able to promote it or sell it commercially.

The critic in me also can't stand that most artists on AI aren't even close to the level of other successful performers on the market for a number of reasons:

- They aren't interesting enough or experienced enough vocally to last as a solo act.
- They don't play instruments
- The pop market is oversaturated with the kind of artists who appear on AI, and for any of them to be more than a "one hit wonder" is iffy.

And I believe one of the reasons the talent has been better this season is due to blatant industry plants. votefortheworst.com did a very thorough exposé on this season's competitors, and it's very difficult to see them now as anything other than plants. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see tell-all books years from now that there was some sort of "payola" going on behind the scenes at AI. Just one example: when a big record company has already wasted a couple million dollars promoting an artist who's album was a commercial failure, and that same artist suddenly appears on a show like AI and the show's producers act like that part of the artist's background never even existed? Doesn't that make you a little suspicious?

It might indeed make the show more entertaining to have so many experienced professionals on the show, but it seems to be in complete contrast to the show's original concept.

Also, I've always believed that in a vocal talent competition, the most talented individual with the best performances should be the winner. Unfortunately, that's not always the case with Idol.

Craig Crumpton · **Voice Talent** Joined: 10 Mar 2008 Posts: 58

Dave DeAndrea · Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008, 18:07 (GMT) Post subject:

Ya know... the AI conspiracy theory stuff is interesting and all... and I don't mean to offend anyone here... but, WHO CARES?!

Yes, there's marketing and money in mind from those who put the show together... nothing new there!

It's entertainment with some politics, not politics with some entertainment. We're not voting for the next President here, just enjoying watching some kids try their best and getting excited with them as they experience things they've only dreamed about...

It's just like any other entertatinment... we cheer for the ones we like.. boo the bad guy... and try to make sense out of what Paula's saying. Maybe we could lighten up a little, huh?

David Oxford · **Voice Talent** Joined: 09 Feb 2007 Posts: 505

Craig:

I appreciate your comments - and the discussion of all the points. You make some very good points, of course.

Regarding the issue of these show's contracts and how "they own you" if you become anything, that's really not unusual. If you land a label deal - even with some of the less-than-major indies - they own you, too. The TV contracts might be more stringent - but they've also provided you (as I mentioned before) with tons of exposure that an artist couldn't get from any other source, record labels included - at least, not that kind of massive exposure over such a short period of time.

Regarding the level of talent on the show (specifically, this year's AI) I completely agree with you: I've met Skid Row 'down-and-outers' who could best nearly anything that's EVER been on Idol. Pitch 'em a couple of dollars and watch them uncoil that acoustic guitar and blow you away with some REAL song about REAL life ('cause they're livin' it!) You're absolutely right. However, I was discussing the actual talent on this show this year in comparison with past years.

You mentioned something about AI's "original intent" (in regards to the 'industry plants' now being on the show.) I don't think very many 'industry' people would have given AI a snowball's chance in hell to be anything when it began (nor would most musicians/singers), therefore, there was no appeal for them to become involved in "just another talent show." However, Idol has become so big that it could certainly be capable now of attracting a much bigger circle of hopefuls, be they 'industry plants' or otherwise. I'm fairly certain that the enormous number of people involved in the show probably have more than a passing familiarity with music law so the 'legality' of having everyone from the waitress who sings once a week in church in Muleshoe, Texas to the 'industry plant' who once had a label deal who's album crashed wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility - or legality. They couldn't possibly foresee everything the show has become so I'm sure they've had to amend some things along the way - but that's not at all unusual, either.

As far as a performance or an arrangement being "copyrightable" or "protectable," yes I know that it's spelled out in law. Maybe what I should have said, instead, was "it's awfully difficult to prove," in regards to Cook's 'stealing' of this bands performance. I don't know much about this particular story (in regards to the band's contention) so does anyone know specifically what they're claiming? Did they, in fact, have a copyright of their arrangement? Are they a major act or just a club band? I'm asking out of ignorance. Some of these issues would certainly, along with many others, have to be reviewed to ascertain whether they have a leg to stand on - but I seriously doubt they have much to squawk about.

But then again, I was wrong once. Thought I'd made a mistake!

Laughing

David

Todd Ethridge · **Voice Talent** Joined: 13 Feb 2006 Posts: 214

I liked the fact that a couple of weeks ago, the kid with the dreadlocks did "Hallelujah" by Jeff Buckley/Leonard Cohen.

I was even more impressed that Simon said Buckley's version is one of his all time favorite songs.

I'm a huge Buckley fan.

Lucas Nugent · **Voice Talent** Joined: 26 Jun 2007 Posts: 131

Actually I had an extremely hard time understanding how Simon didn't think that was the worst performance of the show/year/ever; he barely stayed on key, his word pacing was all over the place, and his constant vacant look just detracts from the whole scenario.

But I have to agree the song is amazing. My favourite arrangement though has to be Rufus Wainright's. Simply beautiful music.

Todd Ethridge · **Voice Talent** Joined: 13 Feb 2006 Posts: 214

I was just happy to hear something other than a Neil Sedaka song. Very Happy