Not One Lead Since I Expressed Dislike of Tagging

Scott Paxton · **Voice Talent** Joined: 22 May 2006 Posts: 187

I just wanted to go on record and state my leads have completely stopped since I emailed V123 twice about anonymously tagging and expressed my disapproval here on the forum. I now feel as if I am being punished for stating my opinion.

Has anyone else had leads cease?

Thanks,

Diane Havens · **Voice Talent** Joined: 09 Jun 2006 Posts: 1281

Yep.

Just a slow week, I guess. Wink

My grand finale.

Scott Pollak · Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008, 13:46 (GMT) Post subject:

Me too. I think I've submitted 3 auditions here this week.

Diane Havens · **Voice Talent** Joined: 09 Jun 2006 Posts: 1281

Many years ago, when I was a graduate Theater Teaching Assistant at NIU, I was directing a play, very avant garde, by Sam Shepard.

The university newspaper panned it -- not for my direction, nor the actors, but for the PLAYWRIGHT -- for the play itself! She had never even heard of Sam Shepard.

I wrote a rebuttal to the editor, intimating she might not be very knowledgeable about theater. I thought I worded it rather diplomatically. I was re-rebutted.

And then, I was duly chastised by the Theater department who admonished me, "You don't use the same vehicle to criticize something -- it just doesn't work. They control it." It didn't matter that I was right.

Ah, to be young again!

Then again --I guess I haven't changed that much. Very Happy

Larry Maizlish · Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008, 14:45 (GMT) Post subject:

Hi all. I am behind on the information curve on this one. I am familiar with tagging in other areas, just not what is being referred to here. Anyone care to offer some detail?

Thanks,

Larry

Ok....After some quick research, I now understand. Based on the little I have read about this here on voiceoversavvy, the tagging is based on the same ideas that are used elsewhere in the online world.

I recall when Google started tagging images they notified us that any images we had online would be tagged or labeled by other people. No surprise that thousands (and thousands) of website publishers were upset. Google replied by letting the publishers know that the labeling the images received were not accepted until a certain number of people labeled the images with the same words.

So if someone was viewing an image of a square CD case with a picture on the front, they might tag the image "dog." Why? Well, the picture on the CD case was of a dog. Yet that tag would not be active unless a large number of other people also tagged the image "dog" as well. Google requires a large number of identical tags before anyone of those becomes active on the image. This way there is a general consensus that the tags are close to the item they represent. How many is a consensus? A large number, but I don’t think Google will pin it down since it is a trade secret. Tagging is common for images, audio, and now even flash video.

If Voice123 takes the same approach, that the tags are not really active until there are a large number of identical tags given by different people, then this may help in the long run in searching for voice talent. Remember tags are just words including names. It would be great to do an audio search (not webpages, just raw mp3 files) based on a talents name and pull up the talents demos. Or search for demos with a southern accent and get a list of mp3 files voiced by talents who have a southern accent. Click on the demo, have a listen, and be taken to the talent profile page.

I can think of hundreds of tags that can be used to describe the sound, style, and read of a voice. Warm, inviting, casual, dynamic, professional, high energy, emotional, fast, happy, etc. The list goes on from there. The challenge is how to tag mixed demos that have varying read style. Those demos would just have a wide range of tags.

I have no idea how Voice 123 will make use of the tagging, but I would guess that it is a way to add the voice search process. In my experience over that past 5 years or so that tagging has been working in other online areas, overall it has worked out for the better with greater search visibility for the item being searched out.

Maybe the best thing to do is take a wait and see approach and give it time to see how it develops. It has worked in other online areas and it would make sense, when done right, it should work with voiceover too. The end result should be greater search exposure and visibility for the talent demos.

Larry

Bob Bair · **Voice Talent** Joined: 06 Oct 2003 Posts: 274

I received 9 leads yesterday.

Now, as to the quality of the leads....

Lance Blair · Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008, 16:30 (GMT) Post subject:

I voiced my displeasure and requested a refund as I renewed the day before tagging was introduced: and I would never have renewed if I had know about tagging. The v123 team has been open, professional, helpful...but I still haven't received my refund despite reminders (so have they really been all that professional and helpful)?

Despite this, I've gotten about a dozen leads.

For more on my review of v123, check out my blog. No mention of tagging on it, just a "bigger picture" write-up.

As I wrote elsewhere, I listened to 50 demos to tag yesterday. 46 of them were flat out horrible. Two were pro level and decent, and two were pro level but really boring and vanilla. No wonder there aren't as many quality leads.

Lee Gordon · **Voice Talent** Joined: 22 Oct 2004 Posts: 1549

I think the lack of leads is just a coincidence. I'm sure tagging has nothing to do with it, nor does sending an e-mail to Customer Support. I think it's just the combination of a slow economy and the dog days of summer (at least that's the way it's felt around here).

JC Haze · **Voice Talent** Joined: 10 Aug 2007 Posts: 86

Yeah Scott, it's been slow this week. I guess I've had about 10 leads or so...
On the other matter, Whether we critique the new 'tagging' system thru SAVVY or somewhere else, I doubt 123 would penalize us for it. I would think, and hope, they're too professional to stoop to something that low.

Perhaps I'm naive?
But I hope not.

Diane Havens · **Voice Talent** Joined: 09 Jun 2006 Posts: 1281

Seriously, I also doubt it -- they are much too busy with the new tagging feature to bother with such nonsense.

And, I did get a lead today, on my last day here -- and it was a decent one, too. So glad I had the expereince of the tagging process too. I didn't tag anyone. They go from the sublime to the ridiculous -- oooh, I could have used THOSE WORDS!!!

Doug Parks · **Voice Talent** Joined: 06 Jul 2007 Posts: 227

Maxine Dunn · **Voice Talent** Joined: 25 Apr 2004 Posts: 675

I'm just taking a ten minute break from editing a monster job to actually eat something and stretch my legs, and of course check in with my savvy friends. (Do you guys do that? Get so intensely involved in editing that you forget to eat?)

And before I address the subject of Scott's thread, Lance, I just have to ask....How on earth do you have the time to listen to FIFTY DEMOS?? And if the vast majority of them are awful, why do you use your valuable time to listen to them? What is the feeling of reward you get from that? Is there one? How is it adding to your career, your friendships, your life?

Today is a typical day for me; i.e., busy as hell! Started the day being interviewed by one of my voice-over coaches for a possible inclusion in their key note presentation at Voice2008, (Yippee!!), happily scrambling to schedule and do jobs that all seem to appear on the same day, calling multiple clients back about projects, editing GIGANTOR sound files for a big corporate client, cancelling my hair appointment because there simply were not enough hours in the day to do it all, and I just realized it's almost 2:00 in the afternoon and I haven't even had breakfast yet. And I love it! I feel very happy to have a career that I love working hard for.

So, how do you people find the free time, (or more importantly, WHY do you use your discretionary time?), to sit and listen to demos that appear to be mostly awful? I can't think of anything I would rather NOT do! There about a hundred ways I can think of to use my time, and none of them include sitting at my computer on a work day, (or any day, for that matter), listening to the bad demos of people I’ve never met, who are completely anonymous to me, and who aren't even professional enough to have taken the time to make the effort to create a decent demo. It just seems bizarre to me….

Listening to bad demos ad nauseam? Ugh! IMHO.

And onto the topic of the thread ~ I received 9 leads yesterday, 10 on Wednesday, and 15 on Tuesday, so I don’t think that complaining about the tagging system is a deterrent to getting leads. (Only saying that because I’ve been particularly vocal about it….) Maybe it's just a slow period.

Max

Melba Sibrel · Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008, 21:22 (GMT) Post subject:

Scott, et al, let me tell you, you're not missing a thing. I've not moved so much crap out of a box since that summer I worked at a horse barn.

Greg Houser · **Voice Talent** Joined: 12 Mar 2008 Posts: 174

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar...

same rule applies here.

Lance Blair · Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008, 21:41 (GMT) Post subject:

I listened to the fifty demos because I wanted to see just what the state of the v123 talent pool is. Pretty bad stuff.

I didn't spend an hour listening to them all: I could pretty much flip to the next wannabee after five seconds because they were so bad. I probably listened to six of them end to end, so it may have taken me fifteen minutes to hear it.

I got the message loud and clear...the good leads aren't coming back to v123, and now I know I won't be missing much.