Watermarks, lets here your example.

Victor Harris

I have always watermarked public leads, however, after todays drama, I know have to start watermarking private leads too. So, lets hear your watermark examples/techniques.

Here's my usual method. I place a signal on a rider track. I always let the prospective client know in advance that I have a watermark so they dont think its shoty production. Wink

Colin Campbell · Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007, 23:08 (GMT) Post subject:

I found that hard to listen to since it was so constant. I thought these watermarks were more of a beep every ten seconds or something like that. I don't like the whole concept though for a few reasons. Don't like to much up the audio firstly and secondly, don't think the client understands it and if they do, thinks you don't trust them. I still subscribe to generic organization names and bogus phone numbers.

Victor Harris · Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007, 23:11 (GMT) Post subject:

It just sucks having to do anything at all. Crying or Very sad

Robert Jadah · **Voice Talent** Joined: 17 Jun 2005 Posts: 2627

Personally, I like Colin's "stealth" watermark. A wrong brand name, wrong digit in the telephone number; anything that makes it sound pro but is essentially useless.

Colin Campbell · Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007, 23:23 (GMT) Post subject:

Somebody should start "Our Company," put up... www.OurCompany.com with a phone number of 1-800-555-1212. They'd get a lot of calls. Especially if they could get their town leaders to rename the town "Our Town."

Todd Ellis · Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2007, 00:21 (GMT) Post subject:

I used to work for a publishing company and we always used "Auertowne" as the name for spec publications. Here's my watermark.

Thomas C. Gass · **Voice Talent** Joined: 11 May 2006 Posts: 179

Victor,

...and here is your demo without watermark. It took me 30" to get rid of it (no joke). A constant sound is so easy to eliminate...

I also tend to change words or numbers, so it can't be used by the client. Another type of watermark I do is to replace just half of a second by silence.

Thomas

Scott Pollak · Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007, 14:15 (GMT) Post subject:

Seems like we've had this discussion before. Based on feedback from Julie Williams in an earlier thread about this, I quit using the attached watermark and merely fade out the demo, substitute a wrong word, or don't do the whole thing. But attached is the watermark I WAS using, and an example of it in a read. Thomas, I'd be curious to see if you can edit this one out!

Thomas C. Gass · **Voice Talent** Joined: 11 May 2006 Posts: 179

...here we go, Scott - took me 15 seconds longer (just kidding Wink

In fact, it's harder to get rid of this watermark than of a constant sound and you can hear that the quality has come down a little bit; nevertheless it could still be used for a local radio commercial with some sound fx and music in the background (some local stations don't bother too much about sound quality.)

I guess I could even take your watermark out without any noticeable quality loss, but this would certainly take an hour or so.

Thomas

Scott Pollak · Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007, 15:18 (GMT) Post subject:

Sounds like I'm in a waterpipe, Thomas! Fun exercise, though. Surprised

Allen Brown · Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007, 16:21 (GMT) Post subject:

I'm with Robert and the rest of you about changing words to make it unusable. When I've done that, however, I've often wondered if the voice seeker thought I couldn't read the copy ("Why hire a guy who can't even read the demo copy correctly?")

In my opinion, none of us should be doing these auditions without watermarks of some type. This is the internet, for gosh sakes! There are plenty of bad people with clever little ways to steal our service. It didn't seem like a problem when this site first started, but the crooks have become savvy to how this setup works.

The problem is, as some of you have stated, that watermarking sends a negative signal to the voice seeker that "We don't trust you." The fact is, we SHOULDN'T trust them...we don't even KNOW them! (usually)

Then, as I mentioned above, if we change things in their script, we run the risk of them thinking that we're incompetent.

I think it is really time for Voice123 to get proactive on this issue. It needs to be taken off the backs of the people paying the freight here to protect ourselves. Voice seekers should be told up front, in no uncertain terms, that all auditions are protected by law. There should be a STANDARD watermark layered on every audition. If the voice seekers KNOW that the files will all contain this watermark then there is no reason they could take offense from the talent. Plus, the playing field would be leveled and the non-watermarking talent doesn't get a real or perceived advantage over the watermarking talent.

Simply telling talent that "We encourage watermarks" isn't getting the job done, not to mention the extra time and effort if takes for us to watermark.

I think there IS a class of client who would prefer NOT to have watermarked auditions. This is another reason I believe a "Premium" level of service should be made available on this site. I've raised this issue before and I've been told that good things are coming. We'll see.

My best to you all. I'm glad you've brought this issue here. What say you Voice123 admin? I think we need a little help here to protect your Geese...people are stealing the Golden Eggs!

Victor Harris · Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007, 16:39 (GMT) Post subject:

Well, after reading the posts in this thread, I have come to the conclusion that there is really no safe way to watermark audio. Even if you leave words out or change them around, they can still be dubbed in or manipulated around. Removing beeps also appears to be simple too.

I have to agree, I think its high time that Voice123 steps up to the plate on this. The truth is since every talent seeker on here is "Confidential", there is really no way to follow up on if someone is using your stuff or not. Wink

Allen Brown · Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007, 16:44 (GMT) Post subject:

What we need are "Mission Impossible" files that self-destruct! Very Happy

Joe J Thomas · **Voice Talent** Joined: 16 Nov 2004 Posts: 1521

Hey gang,

A few months back I worked with an experimental watermark system that embeds an image in the audio. I only works with wav files, but you can actually stamp your logo on the audio.

I even saved one as mp3 after watermarking, then coverted back to wav. The watermark was fuzzy, but still readable.

Of course, this only helps after the fact, and doesn't prevent the use of the audio. Interesting idea for court cases, though.

I'm with Victor on this one - a simple change of the wording or numbers is the least obtrusive that gets the job done.

My 1/50th of a dollar,
Joe

Amy Snively · **Voice Talent** Joined: 04 Jul 2005 Posts: 1028

I just fade the demo out gracefully well-enough into the end of the spot to make it useless.