Moral Dilema...

Tom Greenlee · **Voice Talent** Joined: 07 Mar 2006 Posts: 945

Don't leave me hanging man....what did you decide? You may have said it in your post, but I must have missed it. Did you do it?

Joe J Thomas · **Voice Talent** Joined: 16 Nov 2004 Posts: 1521

George Karnes · **Voice Talent** Joined: 26 Dec 2006 Posts: 905

Wow-
I echo the great thread comments.

OK...I mentioned somewhere here that we are a religious family. My religion is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Mormon).

Most know we don't drink alcohol, coffee or use tobacco.

So When I see read for that stuff, I just delete them. I also just delete the adult content ones.

If I were ever to even contemplate doing one, the thought of my kids hearing it sometime in the future would cause me to dismiss the idea.

I worked with a guy in LA who was a Scientologist. Incredibly nice guy, somewhat maniacal about Scientology.

Now I know that a lot of people feel like Scientologists AND Mormons are cultists.

I know we (Mormons) aren't, cultists, I suspect Scientologists are, but I ask others to respect my right to my religion, so I feel like I must respect theirs. I don't persecute them, but I wouldn't do the read either.

Kathleen Keesling · **Voice Talent** Joined: 15 Jul 2006 Posts: 746

Tom- You put the whole thing in a very clear prospective. I agree with you wholeheartedly.

Its a very Politically Correct way to explain the dilemma to boot!

Have you ever thought of going into politics? Laughing

Tom Greenlee · **Voice Talent** Joined: 07 Mar 2006 Posts: 945

Tom Greenlee For President! Just vote Tom! Just vote Tom! Just vote Tom! hahahahaha as I give the presidential wave....the smile with the slow side to side wave of my hand. Hey....If I'm going to be president, why did my wife order me to go out and pick up the dog poop and I obediently did it! and in case you're wondering...I'm NOT hen pecked....and I have my wife's permission to say so! hahahahaha

Bob Bair · **Voice Talent** Joined: 06 Oct 2003 Posts: 274

Joe,

You never know, perhaps you will be cast as the voice they needed for a presentation meant for all Scientology believers to instruct them to start following Buddhism.

J.S. Gilbert · Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007, 03:05 (GMT) Post subject: just take note

I want you all to take note that I have not left a long pontificating, yet profound message here.

--j.s.

Colin Campbell · Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007, 03:16 (GMT) Post subject:

You're slippin' JS. BTW... what do you think of tube pre's? Fad?

Cameron Thomas · **Voice Talent** Joined: 06 Dec 2006 Posts: 479

Their money is just as good--considering they're going to pay a decent amount. I was in a similar situation but I discovered I could rise above the politics and slander to do the job. Part of being a professional is separating yourself from prejudices/dislikes/politics, etc.
It's a gig...you don't have to lose your morals along the way...just put the blinders on and do it. Good luck!

Cheers,
Cameron

Joe J Thomas · **Voice Talent** Joined: 16 Nov 2004 Posts: 1521

J.S. Gilbert · Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007, 19:27 (GMT) Post subject: tube pres

Well folks, my main mic pre is a Millenia STT-1. It is what's called "twin topology" It has a tube setting and a solid state setting. I also own 4 different tube microphones and several other mic pres.

I most frequently use the STT in it's solid state version. Usually tube mic pres don't drive as hard as solid state and they can also introduce some additional noise into the signal path. This isn't always the case. The higher end gear that you find from Neve, Avalon, Millenia, etc. is really designed well. A cold sounding microphone can benefit greatly by being paired with a tube pre. I have tried an RE-20 with several different tube pres and I haven't liked what I've heard, but the Neumann TLM-103 a very overpriced microphone for the sound, does get a little nicer sounding when I run it through the tube pre. The only problem that can happen is that you can start hearing a little more sybilance and compression can also make things start sounding a little "slushy".

This is all very subjective of course and we use this gear for very single purposes and we're not looking to get good sound from micing a guitar cabinet or flute, etc. Some people don't like microphones with strong proximity effect, however it can benefit you by working close in to get more of the voice of god stuff and then pulling back to get more of a conversational tone out of your voice. For most things, I like to hear a fairly high dynamic range (little or no compression) and really try to work the microphone and modulate my voice to present emotional attachment, vocal contrasts, emphasize sell points, etc.

Part of the big problem with this equation is that we have almost no information on the clients. Recording is 1/2 the physical chain. The equipment used for playback is the other half. If the client is listening in a recording studio on Tannoys or JBL speakers or some such, then the subtelties of the recording come through. If the client is listening to us through the built in speaker in their Dell laptop, then they'll hear something different.

My situation is a little differnt than some becuase I bring other talent in here and also ocassionally have clients in here as well. The clients seem to be more impressed by my offering them out of season melon and cheese plates than by my gear.

So the end result is and always has been a lot of seond guessing and a lot more luck and timing.

Colin Campbell · Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007, 20:08 (GMT) Post subject:

JS, you noted that you didn't have good results with the RE-20 into a tube. I believe the TLM is condenser no? I know the RE-20 is not. It seems that is the key difference why you did better with the Neumann into the tube preamp, simply because it, unlike the EV is condenser.

I feel a bit like a tech piker when conversing with you so go easy. I know audio tech fairly well but I feel I come off as an old radio hack. Always slamming compression on everything. It is true we radio people LOVE compression.

J.S. Gilbert · Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007, 20:42 (GMT) Post subject: It's still really subjective

Well, no matter how you slice it, it's still all very subjective. At one time, I would send game developers samples of me doing characters at 8bit 11k, the idea was that the game industry needed to apply heavy compression to v.o. and had extremely limited space, so the fact that my voice could carry well compressed was a selling pint. Along comes CD, DVD and now Blue Ray and this isn't an issue anymore. At one time I could engineer an incredible downsample to 8bit 8k umlaw for voice mail. Again it was a big selling point to get it to sound good. Recently being able to do 32kps streaming audio for flash presentations that sounded good was a real craft. It has gotten easier.

So here is much of the world trying to add dynamic range (or at least not rob it all) from the recordings. However the Monster sale piece that sold had a tone of compression on it, so obviously there is still plenty of demand for that type of recording.

The things that people can do to get better recordings, like eliminate most of their startup programs from Windows, use high quality digital convertors, monitor back with good headphones or speakers will help a great deal in being able to deliver good, clean sound.

In my case and that of a lot of people here who also direct or do production, we're constantly having to switch hats and make sure that as talents we bring our best game, but don't run the show. When I cast, my task is to present a certain number of people for a certain number of roles to the client. The voice talent needs to be presented in a similar light. If someone sends me an audition that's already produced, I can't judge them the same way as I judge the others. Additionally, you don't know if I'm a musician and in addition to providing a vo talent, I'm also writing music for the project. SO in my case, anything highly compressed, or wqith any production goes outthe window. Then that leaves the other auditions where I'm listening to hear the quality of recording - not too high a noise floor, not too muffled a sound, not too many high end transients. That sort of thing. Even a great delviery doesn't do me any good if the gear can't create a basically clean recording. And then last but not least is the delivery. Good is when someone has gotten into the head of the writer and brought the copy to life. Better is when the talent does a delivery and me or the client or both is stopped in our tracks and says "wow". Personally I like to hear things that are a tad over the top, becuase I know that person can be brought down in intensity. You never know if a person who has a flat read can act. Sometimes it doesn't matter, but most of the time it does.
Even if it's voice mail, I want to make sure that the customer listening to the on hold messages and other instructions feels as good as they possibly can given the circumstances. I like an Alan Alda approach from Men and a Mary Alice (Desperate housewives narrator) approach from women. Of course this all depends on the clients expressed desires.

I really recommend that voice talent go online and listen to recordings and voice demos from people like Peter Coyote, Peri Gilpin and other celebs that do a lot of v.o. voicebank is a great place to listen to demos. You can hear all of the celebrity talent at William Morris and CAA and many others.

I'm not a very big advocate of tradionatl voice over classes. I think that studying improv acting or tradiional acting will do more for someone in this industry, othe than classes that might deal specifically with microphone technique.

I'm not sure what the thought processes that any of the people who use V123 for casting are. I have talend to many ofthe people I work for and come up with lots of information that contributes to my doctrine. Generally I have found that most of the producers I work with don't really care much about the technical process. SOme of the pople that hire me are engineers or studio owners, etc. and they seem to care a bit more. I was on the phone the other day with a client and he said what kind of microphone did you use for this and I mentioned a "Neumann". He said oh yeah those "Newman" microphones are good. We're thinking about getting a microphone here for little stuff that we can bring someone here to do, that's why I asked. After further discussion, he seemed to think that professional microphones cost $300 - 400 andwhen I told him the Neumann U87 that you find in pro studios goes for $1,500 - $2,000 and that was what I had used, he seemed amazed to say the least.

When they hand out the Golden Pencils, Tellys, Addys and Emmys, it seems as though no points are added or deducted for using a Neumann over a Shure or a M-Audio mobile pre over an Avalon. It seems to be about the performance.

Colin Campbell · Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007, 20:55 (GMT) Post subject:

Yes... it is about the performance unless the equipment is SO bad, as are some of the things I hear from other V123 members. I think you have to at least have a clue about the tech. I've been told by some knowedgeable people that there is a bit of buying the name when it comes to Neumann though. When I bought my mic a year ago I only had access to three different ones to try. An RE-20, an RE-27 and a Shure KSM32. Now the Shure sounded leaps and bounds better than the EV's but now in hind-sight I know that it is the fact that the Shure is a condenser that sold me. Of course now I am learning all about proximity effect and sensitivity when it comes to condensers. Being on a shoe-string budget, I can't at this time afford to aquire a sound booth and I have no real handyman skills to build one but I see (hear) now the need for it. With the condenser, I hear EVERYTHING and battle it constantly. But at least I am aware and turn off every possible noise source (I freeze in the winter with the furnace off) and use gating and contantly play with it's threshold and how much gain I am feeding it. All my efforts have gotten me certainly usable recordings though and someday I will do something about a booth. For $500 though, I am pretty happy with the Shure large diaphram condenser and I think that is the key, if it is a large diaphram condenser, you going to do pretty well regardless of brand. You can get around "self noise" with EQ anyway.

Freddie Molina · Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007, 23:56 (GMT) Post subject:

Sorry guys, looks like this thread merged some comments from another topic, we are looking in to the issue right now.

Please accept our apologies.