What am I doing wrong?

Travis "J.T." McGinnis · Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007, 00:57 (GMT) Post subject: What am I doing wrong?

Well, I spent the 200 bucks for the premium membership about six months ago. I've got a couple demos up and I've responded to hundreds of leads, many of them custom demos. Still, no work to show for it.
If I don't at least make my money back in the next six months before my membership expires, I have no reason to renew...it's been a waste thus far.

I'm curious what I may be doing wrong? I know it's not my voice, because I do a lot of voice work locally...but I work in radio so that's my job. Is it the way I respond to leads?
I always try to undersell the client budget. If they are offering $300.00 for a job, I'll quote them $150.00 for it...depending on the nature of the read of course. I pretty much do that for everything I reply to, in hopes of getting the job based on affordability. I know I cannot compete with the big voices or the seasoned pros. I don't have a big voice, nor do I have any formal voice training outside of radio work. So, I figure I can compete on price over anything else. Is that the wrong way to look at it?

I guess the way I see it, someone who wants to use a voice is going to do so because first and foremost, that voice has the sound they're looking for. However, isn't price the next big determinant? If a client has narrowed their job down to five potential voices, I would think that the one who costs the least would appeal the most...correct?

Any other thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Like I said, I'm not going to renew my membership in six months if it's not worthwhile to me. I don't want my experience here to end up being a sour one.

One other thought...why doesn't V123 have a job-to-job based payment system instead of the annual fee? For people who get a lot of work from this website, I can see how the annual fee would be appealing...but for people like me, it's a waste of money (so far). I would be much more willing to let V123 take a small percentage of payment of every job that I end up being hired for as opposed to having to pay a flat rate that my end up being wasted. Is that just not a good idea? It sure sounds good to me.

Thanks folks!

-JT

Scott Nilsen · Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007, 01:39 (GMT) Post subject:

I certainly understand your frustration on not getting all that much return for the effort put out. I think when you read these boards, you will find that several people have expressed similar concerns.
All I can do is encourage you to keep plugging away.

On a different note, I would like to address something else you brought up - the pricing. I think I would be speaking for several here when I say, "Please, for the love of God, stop undercutting the bids."
Believe me, I understand the reason why you might think it would help. But in fact, it cheapens and makes it worse for ALL of us. There have been several threads discussing this very issue.

It has been helpful for me to think about other ways to market myself besides just this website.

Tyler Jones · Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007, 01:42 (GMT) Post subject: Hey Travis..

I'm fairly new to Voice123 too, I have to wonder if it's the quality of the demos being sent. I find that everyone has different strengths in this field.
For example some may have tons of experience with their voice, but lack
in the production department. They may not realize that quality equipment will help, as does a knowledge of encoding, bit rates, etc.
You may not be doing anything wrong as per say, however underminding
the rates affects everyone here. A customer may pay more for a talent
based on the fact that if they pay more they will be getting someone with more experience. Underminding the set budget may seem like a smart thing to do, however as you gain experience you'll realize your actually
hurting yourself in the long run. To cut the budget in half likely tells the client, your an average joe with no experience or low confidence in your vocal capabilities. Patience is a virtue, the jobs will come. Like you,
I haven't landed any yet since I joined, but I'm also busy with other jobs
elsewhere in my studio.

I'm curious to know if the clients are actually recieving the demos in the quality we send them in as. If they recieve them the way they come up
on our profile page, then it maybe no wonder people may not respond.
An MP3 should be recorded in at 192kbit or better unless using MP3 pro.
Which then can be a little lower. The funny thing is I know about recording and production and usually try to do my demos in true stereo,
but they can still sound horrible when the are streamed or compressed to a lower bit rate. Anyways, don't be too discouraged, the guys at V123 I believe monitor the quality of demos being sent out, hopefully they don't
just favor certain people or talents over others...

It seems we may be at their mercy. If they run the screening process,
which I think I read somewhere on the forum. Anyways, keep posting.
Listen to others demos and compare them to yours. How do they compare? This is all I can offer you at this time. Hopefully this helps.

Todd Ellis · Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007, 01:51 (GMT) Post subject:

Hi J.T. I rarely comment on demos - but what the heck - ya only go around once ... Your posted demo is not bad - just long, and a bit monotonous. I'd cut it down to 60 seconds - using only the high points of each segment. You have a tendency to pop your "p"s - nothing turns me off more than that when listening to a demo. It's just my opinion - but take a very objective listen.

On the price issue - If the budget states $300 - the client is willing to pay $300 for the right voice. I don't see a crime in coming in a BIT lower to show an eagerness to do business - but to throw out the old "dolla - a - holla" can be a con - not a pro.

Just one man's opinion.

Tyler Jones · Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007, 04:11 (GMT) Post subject: Thanks for the Pop comment..

I've been testing out alot of different mics lately, for a local music store.
I wasn't in my studio when I recorded this, so I had no pop filter available.
Plus, I've been finding that when working with the audio interface with my laptop ( Lexicon Lambda ) it's been giving me alot of problems with condenser mics..Probably the fact it's only USB powered and is putting strain on the USB port. I normally run through my Mackie 24.4 vlz with an AKG mic and pop filter with no problems. Thanks, for the info.

Travis "J.T." McGinnis · Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007, 19:08 (GMT) Post subject:

Scott Nilsen · Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007, 19:37 (GMT) Post subject:

For me, it really depends. If they want a custom demo, I try to give them what they have stated they are looking for (that is, if I feel I can give it to them. Sometimes I know I don't do that thing very well, so I don't respond, and wait for something I know I do better.).
If they only want a generic demo, I either send them my reel or send them something I have done that is similar. When I do that, I say in my response that there are other demos available at my web page.
I used to really be concerned about "winning them over" - but I have come to the place where I offer them what I do best, and not try to pass off my stuff that would be substandard. I think that's about all I can do.

Phyllis K. Day

Tyler Jones

Hey, Phyllis. A couple things to check..

1. When you record do you use the mic in front of the monitors while recording ? This will cause a phasing effect. Turn monitors down or off,
while recording vocal takes.

2. If you record on one platform and save the files as MP3, then use them on a different platform to finish the project, your likely getting the effect because when you save the first file as MP3 and then record on top of it and mixdown as an MP3 again you lose quality. MP3 is not the best quality to begin with, since it copresses the audio file so it can be sent faster over the net. Try working with Wav files, untill project is complete. Then do your conversions at 192kbit or better for MP3. The higher the quality of MP3 the longer it will take to download for the client. 192kbit is standard
unless using MP3 pro. Is the person doing the recording and mixing down the MP3 aware of conversion rates, and processes involved ? When mixing down wav files you'll want to do stereo interleaved 16bit 41,000hz.

Wink

Robert Jadah

Travis:
For what it's worth, here's my advice for scrabbling out of your rut:
1) Keep plugging away
2) REALLY KEEP PLUGGING AWAY
3) Answer suitable postings, i.e youthfully excited, upbeat, radio-y. Take your time with each audition. Record once. Listen to it very critically. Decide it stinks. Record it three more times while imaging that you're in the recording booth and the clients are watching you. You can't hear them; they can hear you. They're all naked. The copy writer is there; fully clothed but making faces.
4) Listen to the three takes. Decide you like the second one. Keep your favourite parts of the others.
5) Edit carefully.
6) Submit it, quoting almost the top of their budget range
7) When you have time, practice on other types of postings
Cool

Enjoy the work. Expect no replies
9) Go back to 1) above. Work down.
And as to your demo, it sounds good. I'd lead with the DiamondBack, segue into the 0% clip, put your first one third and leave the rest as is, while cutting it all by half.
You're going to be fine. Believe it.
Voice On!
Robert Jadah

Tyler Jones · Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007, 04:49 (GMT) Post subject: Funny Robert...

Hahahahaha!!! Your funny Robert..Love it...I have a tendency to be quite sarcastic at times..man you've got an awsome personality Robert.
Cheers man !!! Have a Beer On Me....LOL...I love to pretend their Naked....Especially the hot female V.O talent in the studio..hahaha...
One thing while your here..You said : don't tell me how I know,
about me helping people.....where do you live in Canada....
You wouldn't believe the shit 5 years I've had at the hands of the Canadian Government who wanted to hide their involvement in the largest Marijuana Grow Opperation in Canada's History in Barrie, Ontario.
Former Molson Plant. I used to work for them, till I reported it.
I took em on!!! And reported the crime.. That's why it was busted..I suffered for it though...Because Government Officials were involved...
I hate corruption...the cool thing is that I saw an article on the web tonite
doing a Google search on Surround Sound Marketing....Get your spacial anomaly's ready..it's coming....VOICE123....CAP LOCK ON THIS NOW BEFORE IT"S TOOO LATE...BE A FIRST TO OFFER TALENT WITH THIS CAPABILITY AND YOU WILL SHINE LIKE NEVER BEFORE............

Scott Pollak · Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007, 05:24 (GMT) Post subject:

Travis... my take on your situation:

- Your posted demo is a snoozer. You've got some good stuff on there and you sound good, but 3+ minutes is 2 minutes too long. Take 15 seconds of each of the spots you have on the demo, cut 'em together and make that baby cook. I couldn't hang to the end and neither will a client.
- Don't undercut the price. If the budget is open, quote a fair price. But if the client says $300, then that's what should be paid. You only hurt yourself and the voiceover industry by undercutting.
- You say you've responded to hundreds of leads, but I don't know really exactly how many you've responded to. Some folks here get a hit every 30 or 40 leads they respond to. They're those top 1% alluded to in another thread started over on the 'General Chit Chat' forum. Most here have a hit ratio more like 1 paying gig for every 100+ leads they respond to. It depends on your talent, what the client is looking for and so on. Are you responding to the right leads that really play up to your strengths? Or are you answering EVERYTHING? If I see a lead that says, for example, they need a British accent, I ditch it because I don't do accents.

It CAN be frustrating. We all go thru it. But only the tenacious will survive.

Phyllis K. Day

Travis "J.T." McGinnis · Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007, 15:22 (GMT) Post subject:

Robert & Scott -

Thanks for the insight. I'll definatley do that and see how it pans out. Like I said though, if I can't at least make my money back before my subscription expires in 6 months, than I likely won't be renewing.
Also, when I said I've responded to hundreds of leads, the actual number according to my account page is 219. And yes, I only respond to the ones I think I'm capable of doing. If they're asking for a 45-60 year old deep voice guy, I don't try out for it. Maybe 219 isn't a lot of responses...but it seems like it is to me. Anyways, thanks again for all the advice! I'll make some of those changes right away!

-JT

Allen Scofield · Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2007, 22:36 (GMT) Post subject:

Don't feel bad Travis. This is my second go round with V123. In the first year, I responded to more than 450 leads and got no jobs. I just recently renewed (don't know why, just did) after taking a break from V123 and have replied to almost 100 leads and still haven't scored a gig. I just keep pluggin' away though and respond only to those leads where I feel I can deliver what is being asked for.

Even without a gig, it's good practice Wink

. But like you, I hate to throw away money just for practice. If there are no jobs this time around, I will not renew again. I'll just keep the free page and try a different route.

So keep on pluggin' at it! My time, and your's, will come.

Thanks,
Allen