Help to negate "free" projects

Greg Houser · **Voice Talent** Joined: 12 Mar 2008 Posts: 174

this is a good point Lee, but on the other hand, bottom feeding like this simply begets more bottom feeding, as many of the pay-to-play sites have shown.

Caryn Clark · **Voice Talent** Joined: 27 Mar 2005 Posts: 1000

Lee, I generally agree that if a lead doesn't suit your taste or budget, just hit delete. I've been known to say the same thing to those who have bellyached in the past about lead rates.

This one really irritated me, however, b/c it's a national full buyout in perpetuity for a profit company. If it had been a non profit looking for something free, that's a little bit of a different story. But this is not at all acceptable in my book. We (the talent) work SO HARD to garner fair rates in a non-union freelance enviroment, that allowing a for profit client to post a lead such as this is destructive to the value of our work.

Diane Havens · **Voice Talent** Joined: 09 Jun 2006 Posts: 1281

We, the talent, in order to form a more perfect union....

Oh, wait -- that's something else.

Ok, let's see -- work in perpetuity for no pay -- uh, slavery, then?

No, that can't be it -- this is by choice -- I got it -- indentured servitude!

Uh-uh, no, they will eventually be freed and paid.

Nope, got nothing here.

Steve Royal · **Voice Talent** Joined: 17 Aug 2006 Posts: 167

Lee Gordon · **Voice Talent** Joined: 22 Oct 2004 Posts: 1549

I have to admit that I was actually tempted to answer this lead, not with a demo for the purpose of offering my services, but just so that I could use the "Comments" section to tell the seeker that his project was a big load of crap and that if he expected any kind of decent VOs to come his way, he needed to pony up a bit of cash.

This was probably the first time out of nearly 1500 leads that I have ever contemplated doing something like that but, in the end, I decided no good could come of it. The seeker would, in all likelihood, not suddenly turn into Ebeneezer Scrooge -- post Marley's ghost -- and realizing what a cheap bastard he had been, re-post the job but with real money.

It was more likely that he would give me 1 star for my trouble, or worse, complain to the management at Voice123 who would, in turn, either reprimand me for abusing a seeker or expell me from the joint altogether. So, in the end, I went with my first instinct and just ignored the lead. The bonus is that SmartCast looks favorably upon us for being "selective" so I consider no-brainer "auto-delete" leads like this as just an easy way to enhance my standing in the Voice123 universe.

Caryn Clark · **Voice Talent** Joined: 27 Mar 2005 Posts: 1000

Ok, just keeping you all up to date.

I received a reply today that somewhat satisfied me. I'll post it, and my reply, below. I like details and statistics, so I was happy that Steven provided such info. You guys might be interested too.

Hi Caryn,
Nice to hear from you again. We took a long look at this one before it went through. I see every bit of reason behind why this bothers you because I was a talent before I joined.

Voice123 is set up to trust that the best talents are smart enough to judge what to stay away from, and you witnessed by the amount of submissions, that they have clearly sent a message here to the Voice Seeker. How? By giving talents the choice to say 'not for me' to projects, they are indeed shaping Voice123 and the projects that are post.

Take a look at the way that project has progressed. I got these from SmartCast stats:

32 direct invites + 200 auditions requested via SmartCast resulted in 19 submissions received. Only an 8% response rate.

Out of the 32 direct invites, 3 people have submitted.

The 3 talents have been with Voice123 less than 5 months.

2 of them actually joined less than a month ago.

16 talents who have low budget selected, and chose to audition.

Of those 16 talents of various backgrounds, they all submitted 10 hours after they got the invite, a sign that someone is not caring too much about when they submit, and there is definitely no rush. Especially, because those same talents submit quickly all the time.
I have learned that sometimes people submit just to keep in practice, or to test the site out, if they are new. As well, some people still are not picky.

I know the 16 talents who submitted from working here and some of them are new, and some of them submit for everything they get in their inbox. I get to know talents through the trainings, audition submissions, and emails.

Overall, you tell Voice123 what you want to see and what you do not by what you audition for. You can say 'no' to certain projects.
Does this mean we are headed into a Craigslist style website? Not at all. This project is an exception and can never become the rule. It does not promote 'bottom-feeding' simply because the talents who submitted are new, and could have just been trying the system out for the first time.

One thing I tell talents in Thursday trainings (1pm EST):
Look at the Voice Seeker details at the bottom of the page: If it is their first post, and you feel uncomfortable by it, maybe that is a red flag. Also, if they post often, but never open that is also a red flag.

Voice123 is ultimately a marketplace, and it is currently set up to give talents and seekers the opportunity to form educated decisions on what they should audition for, and what they will request.

If we start editing the projects that are posted, we take on a whole new meaning as a website that leans towards agency or talent manager. Talents have to manage themselves as a business, self-director, sound engineer, and online marketer. By the way, I mention your article on 'getting paid' every Thursday. Good stuff.

Not auditioning for things like this has an effect. It may not be as absolute as people wish all the time.

What has taken shape is an effective method to give talents the ability to choose. Regardless, I think the stats speak for themselves.

My reply:
Thanks so much for your detailed reply! I really appreciate the time you took to research the details. I'm a stats kind of girl, so I like knowing the details. Interesting feedback, for sure!

I've always subscribed to the theory that the seeker will definitely be able to tell the difference in quality of those who do things for free vs. those who demand a fair wage. This particular posting really bothered me b/c it is a for profit company asking for something for free. But hopefully, they'll realize that what they get for free likely won't be what they're looking for. I really really hope.

And, I hope you're right, and that this type of lead doesn't become the rule.

I do hope that you all will consider the suggestion of a filter for "No Budget."

Thanks again! Caryn

PS: That's funny you reference my article in your training. I'd be happy to update it if you like, by the way. I read it a while back and thought there were some things I could possibly add/update.

Melba Sibrel · Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008, 01:47 (GMT) Post subject:

v123 says:
"Voice123 is ultimately a marketplace, and it is currently set up to give talents and seekers the opportunity to form educated decisions on what they should audition for, and what they will request."

Hmmm. So v123's SC doesn't actually give talent the opportunity to make full faith decisions by its restraint on lead access.

Yet clearly they will continue to refuse restraint on any grifter company or youtube preteen producer wannabe posting a job.

Well, rah rah sis boom bah.