Broadcasting Schools

Clinton Nobles · **Voice Talent** Joined: 25 Mar 2008 Posts: 197

So I have been really considering going to school to further my career. It is a major commitment for me though do to personal responsibilities that I have here at home. Without going into too much detail, I am supporting more than just myself at the moment. Both of my parents suffer from disabilities and cannot really have an income of their self (they can live on their own, just cannot get jobs right now do to health so that is why they moved in with me). However, I want to make a go of this and deeply value your opinions on such a subject. Basically I am asking if the following school is decent and if a broadcasting school is really helpful. I don't mean to sound snobbish to school, but I have always been a VOTECH advocate and a school specializing in broadcasting/voicing seems to be more inline than taking art class at JoeSmith U.

Pretty much if I move to say Nashville for college most of my earnings from job or anything I could get would be sent to assist with medical stuff back here in Knoxville so it has to be something that I know is going to dramatically aid my career. Not just something that people expect to see on a resume but really don't care.

Once again I am not meaning to sound argumentative or asking an impossible question. Trust me, I will do a lot more research before actually moving to where I need to go. I am just trying to give a sense of importance that this eventual decision will posses.

Thank you all for your time and responses.

PS: If you know of other places please I am all ears. I am trying to stay in this area, but a state over would be doable too (I am in TN).

Schools that I have found:

CSB School of Broadcasting (I am suppose to go to Nashville June 14th to view this campus) --- http://www.gocsb.com/

American School of Broadcasting (this offers online course, but I want to really learn and don't see how starting from scatch I could really learn without being in a class with an actual instructor using real equipment) -- http://www.radioschool.com/

SAE Nashville -- http://www.sae-nashville.com/index.htm

National College -- http://www.ncbt.edu/

Colin Campbell · Posted: Thu May 22, 2008, 01:12 (GMT) Post subject:

Chris... do you really want "broadcasting?" The industry is in a world of hurt. Trust me, I've worked in it for 30 years!

Now... if you want to do voice... you would want a voice coach. (Now... I am not a fan of a voice artists that need to supplement their income with coaching but I am starting to see some value in a few of them.) One problem you have is deciding who really cares and who will tell you the truth and not just tell you what you want to hear.

As far as production... I know of NO GOOD academic avenues for audio production other than "The School of Hard Knocks."

Many highly paid voice artists can't produce their way out of a paper bag.

It's very hard to find a voice artist that can also produce and be good at it. Then again, some would say that I am a better producer than a voice. Then there's direction. I think I can direct but I am not asked often.

Watch out for "broadcasting schools." Mostly they want your money.

Be careful of people who want to profit on other people's dreams.

That being said.... Bob Bergen and Julie Williams are reputable voice coaches. Nice people who seem to really care about the success of others. A rare thing. As far as production (and... a few pionters on voice) I always offer critiques and advice free of charge. My theory is that if I don't charge for the advice, you can take it or not. My two cents. No refunds on free advice.

Jacob Keebler · **Voice Talent** Joined: 18 Feb 2007 Posts: 329

Clinton,
I agree with a lot of what Colin has said.
Esp. Broadcasting = Hurt. HA!

I do think differently about school though. Going to school can offer valuable time to tinker, esp. on equipment that you may not already have access to.

From what I know CSB really tries to offer a hands on approach. Check to see what kind of software/hardware/underwear? they are using, and report back. Smile

I'd be interested to know what THEY think YOUR money is worth.

Audio theory (which you def. will get with your online option) is nice... but eventually you will need to combine thoery with solid tech skills and a good set of ears. These are things that a place like CSB can offer and on-line courses can't.

Getting in the trenches is ESSENTIAL! I couldn't believe what kind of know-it-all tendencies I had after graduating from school. I went to a 4 year, tech-heavy, liberal arts school, and even after spending another five years pushing buttons professionally I could't believe that I was STILL learning.

Here's a story:
My brother is a line cook/dishwasher at a three star resturant. Last week a guy showed up who had just graduated from a very prestigious culinary school and interviewed with the chef. After about fifteen minutes the interview was over and my brother asked how it all went. The chef replied, "Yeah, the guy can make a souflee and duck mousse, but will he show up to work EVERYDAY?"

I do think it is a Noble (pun?) thing you are doing by helping out your folks and I wish you the best of luck.
Cheers,
-J

Greg Houser · **Voice Talent** Joined: 12 Mar 2008 Posts: 174

a lot of my friends got into TV and radio through the communications program at their colleges.

Might be a safer alternative for you, since it provide the avenue for other opportunities for you down the road.

Just saying...

/being versatile is a profitable asset.

John Weeks · **Voice Talent** Joined: 04 Jun 2005 Posts: 186

Allison Scussel · **Voice Talent** Joined: 25 Apr 2007 Posts: 928

Clinton,

What Colin said is dead on. We have very similar backrounds when it comes to broadcasting. I've been in this business for over 20 years and have seen drastic changes since deregulation. (none for the better)

What is your primary goal? Do you want to work in radio or television? Do you want to be a vo actor?

At my radio station, I also am responsible for the internship pgm and I can tell you that the students that come from credited colleges are much more in tune compared to the students who attend broadcast schools. Only a small percentage of the college students have moved on to broadcasting careers.

Because of downsizing, I've worked with professionals who worked in DC, ATL, and other major markets. Do you know what they're doing now? Reality TV! IE: Seasonz from Flavor of Love on VH-1. Radio broadcasting in general has turned into a very somber career.

I commend you for looking into furthing your education. Because of today's technology, it's important to keep up with the times. My personal opinion? Take some credited courses at your local community college. You'll save money and still learn what's important. Keep up with your acting skills and look into your local theatre company. Many of them can offer you valuable lessons for extremely reasonable prices. There's also a tone of educators online, many of them here at the Savvy forum, who will assist you with out ripping you off.

Wishing you all the best!
~ALLY~

ricevoice · Joined: 07 Apr 2008 Posts: 33

As someone who recently left radio to focus solely on my freelance v-o and production business (largely because I see where the industry is heading), I echo the "are you sure you want to do this?" sentiments. Not sure about tv, but radio jobs are getting scarcer and scarcer these days. I know several extremely talented vets who are currently out of work and they're not alone. Consolidation and corporate bean-counting has completely eradicated the "farm system", where young talent used to hone their chops in smaller markets and work their way up to a bigger gig. Now most of those small market jobs, and many of the "bigger gig" positions, have been eliminated.

If broadcasting is what you truly want to do, then by all means go for it, but be prepared to make very little money in a very small market for at least a couple of years. And be forewarned: most broadcasting schools are only as good as the "teachers" they're able to enlist.

And as far as a broadcasting school helping you get a job... radio PDs care a lot more about what your demo sounds like than whatever schooling you can type on a resume. Hands-on experience is more valuable than classroom learnin'.

And FWIW, this isn't coming from a bitter ex-radio guy, this is coming from someone who looked around at the radio landscape and decided that now was a good time to leave a realllllyyy good gig and get out on my own terms. Best of luck!

Allen Brown · Posted: Thu May 22, 2008, 10:20 (GMT) Post subject:

Some rambling early morning thoughts over coffee.

First of all, broadcasting really doesn't have the same meaning it once did. I know "broadcasters" who are already planning on not owning transmitters in the very near future. There are these things called computers, Max-Fi, the Internet, etc. - they've made the term "broadcaster" obsolete. We will soon be receiving streaming radio in our cars without the need for satellites. That makes eveyone with a media stream a broadcaster. Yes, you, in your little studio, will have the same power as your local radio station. So, when you get this power, and you open your microphone in your own "station"...what will you say? What will you have to offer the listener that will compete with the pros? It had better be compelling. Better get an education.

There's a little secret the broadcasting schools don't want you to know. If you want to work at a radio station, go work at one. Yes, it's just that easy. Pick up the phone and call a few program directors and ask if they have any part time work available for an eager beginner. I may be wrong, but I'll bet you that there are likely three or more stations who will put you on the board this weekend. Maybe not on-the-air yet...but you'll be working at the station getting the same "hands on" that broadcasting schools offer. Yes, you might have to start part time and you might have to work an overnight shift. You'll learn by doing and you might even get behind the microphone. You can always hope that the morning-drive guy shows up drunk and you'll get your big break.

Almost any job will pay you more than radio stations are paying beginners these days. Take one of those jobs. Go to college or tech school. Then, pursue your performing dream, whatever it is - vo, acting, street musician, DJ, "broadcaster", producer of your own streaming media.

As has been pointed out on this board time-and-again, there are very, very few people making a good living in VO. The same can be said about radio. There's always the dream of making the big bucks. Many are called. Few are chosen. There's even the more modest dream of being able to support a family of four on the typical station salary. I believe I heard that poverty level for a family of four in the US is around $33,000.

I'm never one to crush a dream. But, every dreamer with his head in the stars needs to keep his feet on the ground.

Seek out a song called "Do You Know The Way To San Jose?" Listen carefully.

Finally, don't dismiss the unsung heroes of broadcasting. The engineers. The guys and gals who keep it running. Some of them have made small fortunes while the DJ's starved. Now they're also IT and even programming experts. There's that education thing again. If you're going vocational/technical, you might consider it.

Good luck.

Lisa Foster · **Voice Talent** Joined: 13 Sep 2006 Posts: 24

Yeah, uh, radio. I am a veteran radio personality (and I use the term "personality: loosely Laughing

) with over 15 years in the Seattle market, and in the last 4 years still couldn't get a decent paying gig here. Radio is tough - it's corporate, micro-managed, back-biting, political and everyone comes into work on pins and needles wondering if the format/ownership is gonna change on a whim and wipe them out of a job. I finally threw up my hands 3 years ago, and focussed soley on my vo career. Couldn't be happier. I do miss the 6 figures, but my peace of mind and ability to run my business on MY terms is infinitley more satisfying than getting up at 3 AM to announce the time and temperature. Do what Collin suggests and throw your dollars at voice coaching, not broadcasting school. Good luck!

Scott Pollak · Posted: Thu May 22, 2008, 16:18 (GMT) Post subject:

Uh, yeah.... what they all said?

So how many more current or former broadcasting folks need to chime in? I started in 1975 at the NPR station located on the campus of the University of New Orleans while I was majoring in communications there. First radio job I ever had. First radio job I ever got fired from! (ahhh the good old party days of the seventies! Dooooood!)

Radio/broadcasting isn't much fun anymore. The pay is, for the most part, horrible unless you're:
a) in sales, and even that's iffy and VERY hard, thankless work or
b) one of the very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very few lucky ones who land a successful morning show or syndicated show. The odds are just about the same as becoming an NBA star.

Seriously.

That's why most of us, myself included, have bailed out and are now doing it on our own. I know folks who v/t from home and make more than they did going into the station. I do freelance work from home for several stations and make gas money doing it. But of course you have to have established a reputation and the know-how to get to that point.

Do a Google search for the most promising jobs of the next 5-10 years and the ones that are fast dying out. Broadcasting is on the wane. It's for the young and idealistic with no responsibilities, no cares, no family. Those who don't mind living off of Ramen Noodles with their 4 roommates.

I'm really not kidding.

Lee Gordon · **Voice Talent** Joined: 22 Oct 2004 Posts: 1549

I'll chime in. I spent a little more than 25 years in radio and even before I left the game in 1997, corporate America had begun to suck the life -- and the fun -- out of the business. I also happen to know the founder of CSB and his family. They're nice people and I like them and the fact that they have sold the business makes it easier for me to suggest that broadcasting school may not be the direction you want to take.

Unless you have a love of broadcasting that trumps your common sense and makes you want to get into the business despite the less than rosy future of the industry, there's no reason to commit the amount of money it will take to pay your tuition at broadcasting school -- and that tuition will be quite high.

And if your goal is to do voice overs professionally, getting into the business via radio is not your best option. There have been countless discussions on this board advising people entering the VO game from radio that the first thing they need to do is unlearn their radio announcer skills. Therefore, studying broadcasting as a means of entree to voice overs just doesn't seem to make sense.

John Bigl · **Voice Talent** Joined: 13 Aug 2005 Posts: 905

okay ... thats it ... thats all i can stands and i can't stands no more..
please stop saying "announcer" like its a bad thing aufs maul

ahhhhh ... that felt better.... i'm fine .... really ...... i mean it..

anyway, yes, i went to broadcasting school back in '75 in NYC.. then spent 6 years w/ small little hometown stations which were.... ummmm.... heh ... interesting... but, i'd never do it again...

Clinton... go w/ what the folks here have posted.. i admire your devotion to your family but, imo, i doubt radio will provide you w/ the means to continue assisting your parents or contribute to your VO aspirations...

there are other resources to help develop your VO skills.. i use: acting lessons, community theater, singing lessons, Toastmasters and walking around reading copy to my wife, but only if there isn't a hockey game on... i'm also able to practice by doing a reading or occasional sermon at my church...

i have a full time job like so many others here.. it helps pay my teachers and coaches, and get better equipment for recording demos..
and, like you, i have family obligations which, at times, are very time consuming but, are of prime importance.. so important that i have had to sacrifice time from my full time job, and VO aspirations.. y'know, life is what happens when you've made other plans..

so, divide up your time as you see fit w/ other and more helpful ways to develop your VO skills besides radio.. and, btw, i am in no way saying "radio" like its a bad thing, especially to those here who are still active in it.. we are where we are, and using whats available to get to where we want to go..

be patient.... practice... and be persistent..

Be Well

Haneen Arafat · **Voice Talent** Joined: 31 Aug 2006 Posts: 122

Clinton,

As yet another radio vet, I will tell you that there's plenty of good advice on this thread...radio is likely not your best bet. Jobs are disappearing by the minute.

That said, if you still feel like you really want to try radio, I'd see if you can get your hand in as a board-op. I work in a union market, so our rates start in a respectable range, but it's a good way to get a foot in the door. The hours will also be terrible--running the overnight love songs show, Casey's show at 4am on Sunday mornings, or some college ball game, but you'll have a chance to get some skills and figure out if radio is an option while getting paid, instead of forking out thousands for school.

How do you get started? If you already know how to use basic editing software (adobe, short-cut, vox pro), send polite notes around to all of your local stations--including the low-rent AM one with the crummy transmitter--and see if someone needs some help. If you do a good job for them, you move up a step, to a better station, whatever. Hopefully.

I'm sure not everyone will agree that this is the best route, but if you really want to get started in radio, I think that getting to know people in your market will serve you much better than going to school.

And one more thing, as a former programmer, unless I was talking to an undergrad, I never looked at someone's education when considering a new hire. I only cared about their talent and reputation.

Colin Campbell · Posted: Fri May 23, 2008, 00:30 (GMT) Post subject:

One thing that I am amazed escapes corporate radio.... it's not the Internet and iPods that are killing radio... it's the lousy product. If you provide entertainment someone wants to hear, they will find it. Why should I listen to a voice-tracked juke box with someone talking when I can listen to my iPod and not have any commercials. BUT... put someone on who is LIVE and LOCAL and maybe CONTRIVERIAL or at least INTERESTING and then PROMOTE IT and people will find out about it and WANT TO HEAR IT.

I am in charge of production for our two AM's. The "big stick" does OK in drive time but that's because those shows are unique. They are live and local. People relate. They talk about things that are relevant to the local scene. Something not easy to find. Not offered by your iPod. Not wall-to-wall politics either.

The other AM has a weak signal and is syndicated 24/7 and sells spots at $5 each! (Even at that, I don't think it's a good deal for the advertiser. It finally showed up again in the ratings after climbing above a point-5 share.)

To corporate radio..... "IT'S THE PRODUCT, NOT THE VENUE."

Clinton Nobles · **Voice Talent** Joined: 25 Mar 2008 Posts: 197

Wow!! I am truly humbled and honored by all the wonderful responses and advice that has been given here. Thank you all so much. I am going to respond to you all as best I can. Thank you once again.

PS: If anyone sees a point they want to respond to in my reply please do.
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Colin ---

As I have said else where I really admire your input and professionalism. I completely agree with your hard-knocks mentality and can say that for most of life it is the best school to attend. I am searching as we speak for voice coaches. I would like to find someone locally, but I don't know about good over the phone stuff is or sending files of classes to them via the internet. My real reason for looking into the school was for the equipment traning and production skills. However, as you so craftfully explained that is something that time teaches best.

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Jacob --

As stated I was interested in the school for the very reason you pointed out. The training it would give as far as programs and equipment. I do plan on trenching it out here before too long, but I just have to decide what trench is best to conduct warfare in. A Radio/broadcast station or a recording studio. I am thinking the recording studio after reading all of the postings here. lol. As for the story . . . Boy can I relate to that! I have worked as a server, dishwasher, cook, and even manager of divers restaurants in the past 7 years. I have seen the most promising of candidates turn out to be no more than waisted time and paperwork.

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Greg --

Over the post and my time here at the Savvy you have been most helpful and your advice is always to the point. Once again your record holds true. Our local community college is pellissippi State and it has nothing for recording or anything. It has a very limited arts department. The search continues. lol

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John --

WOW! Thank you so much. I will surly be taking you up on that offer. I love to learn and would definitely enjoy seeing a real studio setup. That is truly a wonderful offer.

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Ally --

As for the college see the comment above. I am probably going to have to find something in Nashville and work the best I CAN at that. However, with Gas and other expenses I don't see that happening anytime to soon. Sad

I am looking into the online stuff and of course books books and more books. lol

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Rice --

I have read a few articles lately that have really matched your take on the whole "New Radio" era. I remember I used to (back when I was 7-9) write my own Old Time Radio shows and record them. First one I ever did was "Joshua Jacobs Privet Eye" a 40's two-fisted PI transported to the year 2025 (oldly enough when I did that it sounded so much further away) haha.

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Allan --

I applaud sir! I am no where near that productive over my morning cup of coffee lol. Really though I do see where you are coming from in this post. I will start looking into that.

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Lisa --

I really can relate to your "My Own Boss" doctrine. My family owned a business for a while and I really miss that aspect of life.

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Scott --

NARLLEEYYY!!!! LOL Okay you were dead on it! I searched and the second listing was as follows (http://www.boston.com/bostonworks/galleries/30fast_declining_occupations?pg= Cool

he eighth one on the list! You know your stuff!

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Lee --

Of all the post I think you really caught -- or at least your last sentence matched what my plan were -- what I was thinking. I can understand what you mean as to unlearning. My dad always says "You can tell a radio guy" and I think that is your point. They have a very distinct voice and skill set.

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John --

"Divide up your time" . . . I am going to start scheduling my time better. Actually set aside time, as though it were a job, to my voicing. As it stands I do my breathing exercises throughout the day as well as my tongue twisters. I work at a call center as one of my two jobs and I try to really practice my voicing while answering the lines. (By the way if any are in the need of any of the items listed on www.southern-tool.com just give ext: 802 a call hahaha). This is a career I have to start thinking of it that way.

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Once again thank you to all the insiteful and fun comments. I have read them all several times and each time I've learned more. Thanks again.