Another Pay-to-Play Site

J.S. Gilbert · Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008, 19:42 (GMT) Post subject: For Colin and others

There are some people out there who are brilliantly gifted and no a ton about they why's and wherefores of the internet, Google and other seraches and so forth. WHile I do know a few things, I don't profess to beng an expert, and my post was as much to stimulate conversation and thought as it was to say this is imperically something that happens.

Given that though, I was privy to some data that actually proved that popular individuals on the internet drive searches to certain places.

Here is an illustration of how that can happen, using my name. Someone has a video game and they are curious as to who the voice talent are, so they type ion the name of the game and perhaps the word credits, which might eventually lead them to see my name. Curious as to who I am and what other work I may have done, they copy and past my name into the google box and see a slew of pages come up. Becuase Voice123 shows up very prominently and it may be something that the persdon searching is curious about, they click on the link and go to my page. The clickstream may then show they go to the main page and conduct various talent searches or visit other pages investigating joing V123 as a voice talent themselves.

Unfortunately there isn't sufficient sources of data collection for me to go bvery far with this hypothesis, but it is based on similar web analogies, which are studied in great detail.

Another simpler explanation would be that my name is referred to someone, but not contact information or an existing client doesn't have easy access to my contact information and thus would simply type J.S. Gilbert in the Google box in hopes of discovering my phone number or email address. At this point, becuase of me and the Google results, they will find the most prominent sites are V123 and TOS

The hypothesis is further supported by the fact that I receive 10 - 15 "privates" per month, which are nothing more than people who know me or have dealt with me in the past or who have been referred to me, making an initial contact. They simple Googled on me, got to one of the two aforementuioned sites and "pinged" me via those sites.

Currently in the San Francisco market, stores like Trader joe's are being courted to move into mall shopping areas becuase they drive business to the other stores. In this case, the marektplace isn't competitive and it represents a win/ win, but when potential clients are being led to your competition, who in most cases is happy to undercut you, one has to wonder if the involvement in the community actually costs you money or makes you money.

It is simply one concept that I have never seen addressed and something worthy of discussion and debate.

Given Alex's strong background in web design and development, I bet you that he has tracked much of this information. I am pretty certain that neither he nor any of the current operators of these sites are happy with my posts regarding this aspect of their business. I certainly would welcome any of them to contribute thier opinions or research data.

Haneen Arafat · Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008, 16:24 (GMT) Post subject:

On Friday, I spent 20 minutes writing a note of response...which was quickly wiped out when I was prompted to re-log in. More than annoyed, it's taken me 2 days to return.

Anyway, J.S., you've brought up a few interesting points. While I don't have any particular wisdom about internet searches, your hypothesis about the inherent trade we make with VO marketing sites makes perfect sense. I'll go off on a bit of a tangent here: As far as I can tell, the mega sites with hundreds of talent have no vested interest in who gets booked for a job. They're interested in getting potential clients to the site and having us linger longer. And by potential clients, I mean talent.
While some sites take a percentage from seekers as would an agent, the main income comes from subscribing talent. And with over 3200 listed on v123, attracting talent seems to be relatively easy to do. For instance, "tagging" may not appeal to serious professionals, but if you're just dipping your toe into the industry, it offers you a way to vicariously participate, for a fee. I would also offer that turnover is likely not a huge concern, when they seem to be interested in mass marketing ploys such as this.

I particpate in several pay-to-play sites with good Google rankings, where I feel that the bulk of the competition is not only on a higher level--in theory, lifting my own boat, and attracting more serious clients--but also where the talent pool appears to be more select. So, if someone looking for me specifically finds me on a marketing site before finding my own website, hopefully there will be fewer talent to distract them. And at worst, if they are distracted, it will be by someone with a professional standard and respectable fees. (This is not meant to denigrate talent who have invested in v123 or voices; I just prefer to invest my meager budget in smaller pools.)

Finally, I brought up VO Directory specifically because they'd contacted me--they apparently do Google searches to reach out to talent. As Diane mentions, they were happy to give her a refund within the first 30 days; I joined and I'll watch the calendar.

Diane Havens · Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008, 18:11 (GMT) Post subject:

Web sites are all well and good, but I know I am much more impressed when I search by a person's actual work, then interviews, reviews, publications, articles, etc about the person -- anyone can throw up a web site. Third party endorsements and building a google-hit "resume" -- now that's a goal. I have a friend who has done nothing but act -- stage, screen and voice -- for the past 30 years. He has no personal web site, and doesn't pay to play anywhere or do forums much, but his working life is all over the web. Including Wikipedia. Inspiring.

Haneen -- Let me know how you fare with VODirectory -- I may re-up over there.

And now -- back to WIMBLEDON!!

Haneen Arafat · Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008, 23:04 (GMT) Post subject:

Diane,

Of course you're right--anyone can throw up a website. They're essentially business cards on a computer. But I would prefer to be found on my own site for the very reason that J.S. mentions--when someone discovers us on a marketing site like v123, you're immediately thrown into a huge pot rather than being the only one on the plate. And it's true..depending on one's level of talent and area of expertise, they're not inherently necessary, and nothing in comparison to having a real reputation and career offline.

I wasted my afternoon watching the pathetic Yankees lose to the terrible Mets. I now have a splitting headache.

Diane Havens · Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008, 00:24 (GMT) Post subject:

Haneen -- I agree. But even though I'm not a paid subscriber at 123, it's still the first hit on a search for my name. So even that free page "competes" with one's own site.

Yankees-Mets!! I know, I know-- nothing but heartache in baseball. Who says "there's no crying" in it? That's why I'm a tennis fan now.

Jodi Krangle · Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008, 15:27 (GMT) Post subject:

Very interesting, JS. When I search for my own name, my website (though not the one I WANT to come up) comes up first - then my main voice overs and vocals website comes up third - with my TOS profile page second and Voice123.com up fourth. At least my OWN website is at the top ...

But I've been on the web for a long time in reference to my songwriting website. I'm pretty happy that at this point, my voice over stuff is showing up high on the list. (Well... for my own *name* ... which really - honestly? doesn't mean a whole lot unless someone knows your name already).

Now, I was in Internet Marketing for about 12 years before I made the switch into voice overs. Where your own personal website shows up, has a lot to do with the other links pointing to it. I'm leveraging my songwriting website and have a link to my voice overs and vocals page on that site to lend a powerful link pointing towards it. A lot of that also has to do with age. The songwriting website is 12 years old. Those of you who have had websites about your voice overs for a long time, are likely to appear higher in the results too. Google especially, prefers the aging fine wine (in reference to the website itself) rather than the newly bottled kind. Wink

(They reason they'll display less spam that way.)

TOS doesn't allow you to put a link to your own website on your profile - so while that site is probably getting you some extra publicity and consideration if it comes up for a search on your name, it isn't helping your *own* site with any "link popularity". Voice123.com *does* allow for a link to your own website - right at the bottom of your profile - but only with the url - not with any keywords associated with the link (unless they're already in your url). So while there's a link ... it's not as helpful as it could be.

My point being, this would probably agree with the suppositions JS is making in regards to how people find you. If they find your profile on a Pay-2-Play website *first*, chances are, they're not going to find your own website *after*. Whether or not they look elsewhere for a voice after they arrive on your profile at TOS or voice123.com , is hard to substantiate - but common sense says that it's bound to happen at least once in a while.

Just my thoughts on the matter ... which is worth about as much as you paid for it. Wink